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 The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread

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The Terror
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:03 am

Hi all,
Well I've got my ammonia (Calcuate I'll need just over 2ml for my 51L tank using 9.5% conc ammonia). My next purchase will be water testing kit, as recommended by Diana. I do have a pack of pond test tablets, but am not happy with the results, notably for Ph, which always turns up light blue! The results, such as they are are:

DateTempPhAmmoniaNitrates
15-Jan27?00

I've also got a piccie:


ttfn

TT
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Mary
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:51 am

That's a lovely looking tank. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:58 am

That is a nice looking tank. Bright, but plenty of plants.Once the chemistry is right, your fish ought to enjoy living there.
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The Terror
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:41 pm

Hi Mary,
Had a busy weekend and have not picked up a test kit yet. I'm nervous about putting amonia in and don't want to do that until I've got the tools to monitor it. I've worked out that I'll need 2.1 m/l for my tank, which admittedly is not much, but I assume that this will have to be topped up as the chemical process kicks in.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:02 am

Right! I'm resdy to go Smile . Readings are:
DateTempPhAmmonia
NH3/4
Nitrates
NO2
Nitrates
NO3
21-Jan27700trace
So, I'm planning to add 2ml of ammonia for starters.

Yet another question (the nerves are getting to me). Could any one advise me as to whether a gravel vac is a useful purchase and, if so, any suggestions for a suitable model for a 50l tank?

Thanks again to all.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:22 am

hi i got mine from argos and its ok.
you don;t want one yet..lol eager beaver. Very Happy
my temps at 77 (25)
all your stats will be 0 ph looks ok to me as mines that
ok start adding the ammonia best doing it at the same time every day.
or so iv'e been told
good luck. you need the Ammonia to peak...
...........................................................

if you want to print this off maybe easy for you.

1. First off you will need to set up your tank
(obviously Make sure your filter is running and that the water in the tank has been treated with a good quality dechlorinator. To complete the cycle in as quick a time as possible, turn the heater up to around 80 degrees (but not higher as decreased oxygen levels at higher temperatures may inhibit bacterial growth). At the end of the cycle, the heater can be turned down to suit the fish

2. Add your established bacterial source(s) and dose the tank with the pure ammonia up to 5ppm (as measured with your test kit). Add a few drops and test and repeat until 5ppm is achieved

3 . Keep a daily check on your ammonia level and make sure it stays at 5ppm by adding ammonia once a day at the same time each day to maintain the level. 5ppm at this stage is IME about the right level to be dosing at to achieve a large enough bacterial colony as an end result.

5. Within a few days you should begin to detect nitrite in the water (I would start testing for this after the first couple of days). The ammonia level may start to decrease at a quicker rate as the bacteria that consume and turn ammonia into nitrite begin to colonise your tank. The nitrite will then spike (as shown by a high reading) and ammonia dosing should be cut back to 2 to 3ppm on a daily basis. Maintaining 5ppm and overdosing can slow the growth of the bacterial colonies

6. In the final stage, the nitrite reading should decrease as the nitrite is oxidised by a second type of bacteria to produce nitrate. Continue to add ammonia daily to 2 to 3ppm until the nitrite has returned to 0ppm and you have a nitrate reading

7. The cycle is now complete. However, nitrate at high levels is still toxic to fish so perform a large water change (up to 80%) to dilute it and make the tank ready for new arrivals. Do not rinse the filter media at this point. This can wait until fish have been added and the sponges / media are actually covered in gunk which will start to affect the flow

As stated earlier, your tank is now ready to be fully stocked. It is best to do this as soon as possible to prevent the loss of the bacteria which you have built up during the cycle (they will begin to die off without a source of ammonia). The tank can stand empty for up to 48 hours but I'd try to do it asap. Remember to adjust the heater setting if necessary and dechlorinate the freshwater (some water companies add chloramine to our tap supply so it's worthwhile checking to see if you need a dual product)

or try this one
http://tropicalfishfanatics.forumsmotion.com/cycling-and-water-chemistry-f70/fishless-cycle-t227.htm
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Mary
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:39 am

Ooh, very posh graph, T. Very Happy

chez posted a good guideline there so work with that. Wink

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Rich
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:38 am

OK - this isnt gospel - but ive fishless cycled 12 tanks now - from 30ltr to 200ltr (most of these ARE NOT MINE) and in most of these cases - strange but true - 5ml of ammonia per day seems to be the magic number inititally (to get things going) then this drops to 2-4ml and when the nitrite starts being used up - jumpps to needing 10ml ammonia per day.

As I said - this isnt gospel - just an observation of mine - I think my original fishless cycle can still be seen in my tank thread (not sure)

Hope this helps in someway Wink
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munchycarrot
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:18 am

It's best to add 1ml at a time & test so you don't overdo it. Keep going til you get to 4-5ppm. Only test ammonia for about 7days then start testing nitrItes. The pH will be up & down like a fiddlers arm so don't worry about testing that til the end. Also nitrAtes will not help you til the end either Smile

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The Terror
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PostSubject: FISHLESS CYCLE   Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:58 pm

Well, here I am, in the right place at last and wowed by the new site format! I'm into the cycle now and things are moving. Just after that 'warm feeling' from all those kind people that have been spoonfeeding me.
DateTempPhAmmonia
NH3/4
Nitrates
NO2
Nitrates
NO3
Ammonia
added
21-Jan27700trace2ml
22-Jan277.24.5042ml
23-Jan277.570.670
24-Jan277.44.50.610
So I'm guessing that I can put a small amount of amonia in today (say 1ml), to get back to 5. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:45 pm

yes keep going
i think it peaks at 5 for a couple of days then drops right down again
but some one with better knowledge than me will help you
your doing well Very Happy i think lol
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Mary
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:50 pm

The second column should read Nitrites...Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:04 pm

The Terror wrote:
Well, here I am, in the right place at last and wowed by the new site format! I'm into the cycle now and things are moving. Just after that 'warm feeling' from all those kind people that have been spoonfeeding me.
DateTempPhAmmonia
NH3/4
Nitrates
NO2
Nitrates
NO3
Ammonia
added
21-Jan27700trace2ml
22-Jan277.24.5042ml
23-Jan277.570.670
24-Jan277.44.50.610

So I'm guessing that I can put a small amount of amonia in today (say 1ml), to get back to 5. Very Happy

Smart graph - It's great and shows things really clearly, although as Mary noticed (typical!! Smile) you have two rows of Nitrates.

Im no expert, but I think to make it easy for yourself, dont worry too much if you are getting a reading of 4.5 instead of 5ppm -it's not going to make that much difference. Just keep it above 4 and you will be fine.

By the look of thing you are starting to get a bit of a Nitrite reading which shows that everything is going the right way (how many days have you been doing this now?)

Think it all looks good, but someone will tell you if thats not the case.

What fish are you going to get by the way?
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:09 am

Fishfan wrote:
Smart graph - It's great and shows things really clearly, although as Mary noticed (typical!!)

It's what you (don't) pay me for...

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:11 am

We couldnt afford your fees Mary!Smile

Good to see you are paying attention though - for a change Shocked
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Mary
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:57 am

lol!

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:09 pm

Oh great - a fishless cycle thread - I love these.

When did you start the cycle Terror? It can take about a month to fully cycle a tsank so you have loads of time to arrange your tank as you want it and plan for the fish.

Have you put photos of your tank on here (sorry, I havent been on for a while!).

Just keep adding ammonia to keep the level up to about 4-5 until you get a big Nitrite spike and then reduce it down so that the ammonia level is kept at 2-3ppm.

LLook forward to the next lot of readings Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:12 pm

Now you are all just trying to confuse me arent't you!!

What are you doing with 2 cycling threads Terror? Very Happy
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The Terror
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:36 am

Not sure how it happened, but I seem to have another cycle thread running, so I'll draw a line under this one and move all to:
http://tropicalfishfanatics.forumsmotion.com/tropical-beginners-forum-f20/the-terror-fishless-cycle-thread-t2201.htm
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:11 am

Sorrt TT, I meant to merge them together this morning and then forgot!!

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:13 am

There you go Smile

Now all we need is an uopdate on how your cycle is doing today!! (Demanding aren't we!!??? Smile)

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TROPICAL TANK-Elite Tank - 207litres
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The Terror
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:39 am

I've put 2ml of Amonia in today in today (I add after taking the readings) - and am learning to tell my nitrites from my nitrates Smile .

DateTempPhAmmonia
NH3/4
Nitrites
NO2
Nitrates
NO3
Ammonia
added
24-Jan277.44.50.610
25-Jan277.821.2151
26-Jan27721.4502

I'm starting to think fish as well. Can I do that in this thread?
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:24 am

It's all looking good TT. I take it the Ammonia reading shown is pre anything being added and you are still taking it up to 4-5ppm. You are getting a good Nitrite reading now which is great.

When that spikes up, then you can cut back to keep the ammonia up to 2-3ppm.

If you want to discuss fish in here feel free, or start another thread if you want to keep it seperate - its up to you really Smile

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1 red male betta, 1 BN
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:39 am

What size tank is it terror?

Ive only got a smallish tank but even if I got a big one I think I would stick with the choices I have made, except maybe for the neon tetras who keep dying at regular intervals. I would perhaps addd some rams, or the hatchetfish that Mary has, they look good, and a few more corys.

What type of fish do you like?
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:04 am

It's a 50l tank (60x24x30), so I was thinking of a couple of small shoals of Tetras or similar - guppies perhaps. Also a couple of larger fish as the "star attractions" and a bottom feeder (I've got a gravel substrate).
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