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 The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:14 pm

guppies Shocked your gonna have 100's and 100's of babies
unless you keep to the same sex.
hatchet fish are lovely my neighbour has them.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:54 pm

Hi Chez,
I guess most of the babies will get eaten. I've looked at the Hatchets and got the impression that my tank might be a bit small for them.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:10 pm

Don't worry about testing the pH & nitrAtes, you wont get a 'true' reading with high levels of ammonia. Test them nearer the end, after the nitrIte has spiked Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:09 pm

If youve just got a small tank I would avoid livebearers TT. I had some guppies and plattys for a while and they were a nightmare tbh.

You have to have at least 2 females for ever make or the male just chases and harasses the female ALL THE TIME (typical as some of the ladies on here said Very Happy ). Even if you have a decent ratio of male/female you always have pregnant fish in the tank, and I found that they get worn out and die more frequently than other fish.

As for the fry, some DO survive and you will end up with an overstocking problem, and very soon too.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:56 am

Ah. Panic time. I added what I believed to be a generous 3ml of Ammonia yesterday, but the level has dropped big time today. I guess it is because the chemistry is working and that I need to up the doseage until the Nitrite spike kicks in (which it won't with such low amonia concentrations).
DateTempAmmonia
NH3/4
Nitrites
NO2
Ammonia
added
22-Jan274.502
23-Jan2770.60
24-Jan274.50.6
25-Jan2721.21
26-Jan2721.42
27-Jan27223
28-Jan2711.6
All thoughts of guppies are now history. But I'd still like a small shoal (or two) of something.
Cheers all - TT
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:01 am

Doing great TT. Keep dosing up to 4-5ppm for now.

As for shoaling fish - Some of the Rasboras are really good shoaling fish - I have HArlequins and Emerlad Eye's which are nice and all stay in a shoal together.

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:43 am

You could have a nice shoal in that size tank TT, but it's probably a bit small to have livebearers in, or the bottom dwellers too.

I think BN's need a bit more room dont they, although if you look in the fish profile section elsewhere on here it will give you some useful info, and might help you choose Smile

Ooh, I wish I was just starting out again and had to decide what fish to get - its sooo exciting going to the lfs and trying to choose (or am I just really sad?? Shocked )
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:18 pm

Ammonia has slipped to nearly zero - somethings eating it Shocked I've added 10ml and will test again later today. Nitrites steady on 1.6.
Rasboras sounding good, but they want lots of shade.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:18 am

I dont give my rasboras shade TT and they are really good - in fact they are the only fish that have bot had any deaths in the group and I got them on day 1 of my fishkeeping over 2 yrs ago.

They swim happily in the mid range of the tank and never look for cover at all, even though there are some plants etc growing that they could go and hide in if they wanted.

Goood news on the ammonia - your nitrites will start to go up soon, and then you can cut back the ammonia a bit.

Nearly there!! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:06 am

I dont have much shade for my rasboras either. I do have a few little surface plant that I cant remember the name of but nothing much. They all just stick in a bunch in the middle of the tank and seem quite happy Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:20 am

Soon be finished TT, on the end run now Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:00 am

first fish for a tank this size - id say a mix if cherry and checkered barbs - nice colour mix - both shoal and quite 'tame' - dont grow big and are as hard as nails so any blips in water chemistry (which you WILL have in a new tank) are not a problem for these guys.

As for plecs - dont even think about them until your tank is at least 6months old and Id suggest Clown Plec - again, they are quite small but you wont see much of them tbh.

There is of course good old tetras - but again they are better in more established tanks (3-6months)

masses of choices - but dont rely on pics of fish from books or the net - they never ever do the real thing any justice - so look in LFS - btw - no way you can house a BN in this tank - sorry Sad

Hope this helps
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:40 am

Don't forget your nitrItes has to spike then the Ammonia and nitrItes
will both drop to zero within 12 hours and then your cycled.......................
You can add real plants now if you are having them.
do a 80% water change then you can get a couple of fish.
i would only add a couple of fish at a time over a couple of weeks
if you add too many at once.
your filter wont be able to cope and your Ammonia will go through the roof.
Are you going to add real plants.??? these help,
and mine looked lovely, till i added Elvis he had other ideas..and didn't want them..lol
Also what i did was CHEATED...
My friend/Neighbour has a old established T.Tank and gave me a really good squeezing
from his filter sponge,which to be honest he must have had in in there 12 yrs.....YUK.!!!
it turned my lovely crystal clear tank awfull like bog water..i could have killed him.lol
but cleared by the time i brought the fish home.
i think you have only got so long to get the fish in if i'm correct.???
i was gone about half a hour
otherwise your cycle will go to pot.
i think if you are not getting the fish in that hour
you have to carry on adding a bit of Ammonia....
but some one else will tell you if i'm wrong.
Not long now,and we want pic's, Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:19 am

If you have done the fishless cycle then you are able to fully stock your tank all at once, not just in dribs and drabs. The bacteria in the filter have been building up to cope with a really big level of ammonia - much more that the average stock of fish will give you so that's not a problem.

You only need to add in dribs and drabs if you have cycled your tank, have only partially stocked and the bacteria in the filter decrease to cope wth the bio load of the fish you have. If you then want to add more fish, you have to do it gradually to let the filter build up again.

As for how long you hae to add the fish - if you want to, get the fish, leave them bagged up and do the water change - about 80% as chez says. If you cant do it this way, then leaving the tank all set up with the filter running for up to an hour shouldnt do any harm, but I wouldnt want to leave it any longer than that.

If you want to plant the tank, get the plants and put them in before you get the fish - when you do the big water change is the best time probably as the water level will be low and you can set them into your substrate more easily and without water getting all over your armpits! Smile

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6 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 Emerald Eye Rasboras, 10 Cherry Barbs, 2 Bristlenose Plecs, 2 Panda Corys. 4 Dwarf Chain Loaches.

ViaAqua Tank AR620 97litres
1 red male betta, 1 BN
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:44 pm

Strange things happening yesterday and today, I cant make head nor tail of the Nitirite reading as thay are Red, rather than Purple (Didn't think I was colour blind. The ammonia is around 5 though.
Thank you all so much for the fish advice as well. I'll sit down later today and make up my mind - I could do with a bigger tank hahaha (SWMBO would really appreciate that!)
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:29 am

red? nitrIte or nitrAte ? ?

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:52 am

im getting confused witht hese colours things - if were talking test kits and API kits - blue/purple is nitrite - red/orange is nitrate (this will not reduce but continually build during the cycle) - ammonia is green

As for length of time the bugs can go hungry - ive been reliably informed about 24hours with no ammonia is ok

Also - the theory is that yoiu can stock in one hit - but experience has told me to err on the side of caustion and aim for about 2/3rd's or even half.

However - I still advocate good, reliable, tought little fish to begin with - the wholse mini ecosystem needs more than the filter bugs to mature a tank and you must be patient - its not like buying a hamster where you can put the critter in a preped cage on day 1 and everything will be fine

Hope this helps
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:28 am

Thats funny you should say that Rich - I didnt do the fishless cycle - didnt know about it and found about it too late! - but I was told that one big advantage of the fishless cycle was that you can then fully stock dunno
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:38 am

I can only speak from personal experience but i put 45 fish in my tank the day after the cycle finished. I did the 80 % water change the day the fish were due to arrive

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:11 am

I did the water change the day I went to et the fish and fully stocked to the maximum I could get for my tank size - including Neon Tetras and BN's - fish usuallyrecommended for mature tanks.

Whether it was luck or good management I dont know, but I didnt have any problems at all.

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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:57 am

Whats happening now mate - still plodding on??
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:50 am

HI,
I'm getting really frustrated with the Nitrite readings, can't make head nor tail of them. Plus I broke one of my test tubes! Ammonia is 5 after adding 5ml last night. I'm starting to loose confidence in being able to get this right!
TT
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:52 am

Amonia 4-5ppm is ok
have you got a NitrIte reading yet??
your getting there.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:05 am

The Terror wrote:
HI,
I'm getting really frustrated with the Nitrite readings, can't make head nor tail of them. Plus I broke one of my test tubes! Ammonia is 5 after adding 5ml last night. I'm starting to loose confidence in being able to get this right!
TT

Don't get disheartened TT.

An Ammonia reading of 5 is spot on, so nothing to worry about there. If you are unsure of the Nitrite reading can you either post a pic of your test card and Nitrite specimen for us to see and we may be able to help you judge what reading it is, or take a specimen of water to your llfs for testing - ask them to tell you the exact reading though, and not to just say 'fine'.

Ive had a quick look back through the thread TT but can't see what testing kit you are using - is it the API Masterkit one?

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6 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 Emerald Eye Rasboras, 10 Cherry Barbs, 2 Bristlenose Plecs, 2 Panda Corys. 4 Dwarf Chain Loaches.

ViaAqua Tank AR620 97litres
1 red male betta, 1 BN
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PostSubject: Re: The Terror Fishless Cycle Thread   Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:04 am

just to add... if it is the API kit, nitrIte will go deep deep pink then fade back down to purple then blue for zero.

It will go all of a sudden, the end is in sight TT

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