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 Hiya, and Help!

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PostSubject: Hiya, and Help!   Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:59 pm

Hope this is in the right bit of your forum, apologies if not, but would appreciate some help and advice please.

RRiight, I have a tank, have had it for about 3 months now. Its abot 100litres size and I have in it an angel fish, 4 guppies, some fish that are barbs apparently (8 of them) 2 Bristol Nosed Catfish, a few yellow plattys, 2 clown loaches, and about half a dozen mollies with a few fry in there too.

Everything has been fine but now I am having major problems.

I added a couple of new yellow plattys a few days ago, and now some of the fish have white spots on them - reading up I guessed it was ich so got some treatment for that. Over the past couple of days the angelfish has been looking really sorry for itself and now its fins are starting to look ragged. Could this be fin rot? I asked the guy at the shop and he said it could and to buy some fin rot medicine.

Can I treat for ich and fin rot together?

Today some of the plattys are hanging around at the surface of the tank and just dont look well at all. I made sure the filter was moving the water ok but it made no difference, they are still at the surface. What is causing that?

I havent seen any of the fry today so dont know if they are just hiiding or have died, but dont want to losr any more. Would really like some help, thanks.
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Diana
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:31 pm

Hiya Bobm sorry you are having problems with your fish.

Can we have a bit more info please? Did you do the fishless cycle or just add fish? What are your water stats - ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? Have you started the ich treatment and what is it?

You have quite a few fish by the sound of it, and some are not best suited for a tank that size - the clown loaches grow huge, and the guppies and alngel fish are not the best tankmates so there are a few things that need sorting out I am afraid.

Let us know the info above though and we will take it from there Smile

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6 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 Emerald Eye Rasboras, 10 Cherry Barbs, 2 Bristlenose Plecs, 2 Panda Corys. 4 Dwarf Chain Loaches.

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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:46 am

Hi Diana, I havent a clue about the water today. When I took the water to the local shop for testing they said it was a bit off, the ammonia was up a bit and so I did a 25% water change as they suggested.

They also said should add something called ammo lock but havent done that yet.

Will this be causing the white spots and the fin problem?
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:47 am

It sounds like white spot - being new additions makes it highly likely

Yes you can treat for white spot and ich - BUT make doubly sure by reading the labels ont he meds - tbh - right now the priority is in fact the ich - it kills and fast.

Get some white spot treatment and follow the directions to the letter - remove carbon from the filter(s) as this will negate the medication (carbon removes chemicals from the water) - also increase the temperature of the tank to 27 - 28 degrees C

This speeds up the whitespot cycle (you can research what whitespot is here or online - I believe we have a dedicated ich topic in fish deseases section) - when you understand what it is and how it works - your better placed to deal with it.

I will say DO NOT add salt to your tank - this is often recommended to help kill off ich - but as your quite new to fish keeping - id suggest you dnt do this as it requires caereful amagment and monitoring.

Once thie ich is gone (and stays gone for a few weeks) we can sort your other 'issues' out Wink

Ammo lock is a waste of time - the presence of ammonia indicates that either your tank wasnt cycled properly (or at all) which is a common problem for new tanks and or your overstocked (more fish than your tanks bacteria can handle) - dont feel bad about this. 25% water changes every day will help - in fact doing this every 12 hours will help even more

But you also have the ich to worry about - so when you change water - remember to top up the ich meds (add the amount the instructions say for the amount of water your replacing in the tank not for the whole tank)

The ammonia im affraid to say is extra stress for new fish and ich tends to break out when a fish is stressed, There are various theiries as to where ich comes from - im inclined to think all fish have it from the outset and normally their immune systems stop it doing anything.

What I would highly recommend for the ammonia is king british safe water or bactinettes - both worked for me. Also - try to get some filter media from someone elses fish tank or at the very least some squeezings (the gunk from their filters) and add it to your own filter(s) - this will speed up the natural growth of the ammonia eating bacteria - as you already have ich - you dont need to worry about whethewr or not the filter media is carrying anything nasty. If you have a friend who keeps fish - then thats the place to get the donation - failing that, the LFS (they may be resistant to this idea but push them) - failing that - let me know your address and I'll send you a chunk of filter media from my tank in the post

Hope this helps
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:03 am

Thanks Rich. Sorry to ask another question, but is it the ich that is making the plattys hover near the surface and is that a problem?
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:18 am

The platy is seeking oxygen - this is from the ammonia in the water - if you can add air pumps then do so - if not - try and make sure the outlet of the filter(s) is in a position to make as much disturbance (ripples, waves etc) at the water surface as possible - make sure the flow rate is as high as possible as well - if they are not already fitted (assuming yourr filter came with one) fit the venturi and make sure its open to the max (a venturi simply pulls in air usinfg the flow of the water leaving the filter as the 'pump')

Ammonia is about the worst thing for fish - if they are gasping for air - tbh - id be prepared to lose some fish if I were you. The water changes should help - no more than 25% every 12 hours tho.

Send me a private message with your name and address etc and I'll send you a good chunk of filer media via next day delivery so that it arrives in a state that will help you - sadly - (bad timing) its Saturday evening now - but I'll post the media fuirst thing monday morning (if you want)

It woiuld be helpful to know the make and model of the filter you are using - or is it a jewel aquarium kit (basically give us as much info as you can) this is so we are better placed to help you out more

If your really stuck - you could msn or skype me
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:48 am

Agree with above advice from Rich but would also recommend that you get your own water testing kit so that you know exactly what is going on. Steer clear of the ones that have a dipstick method of measuring and go for something like the API Masterkit which is considered very accurate.

Its a shame you have to treat the fish for more than one thing, but hopefully things will improve soon.

Do a decent water change and gravel vac and then start treating the fish. Raising the temperature speeds up they cycle of the ich parasite, but also can make the fish air hungry so make sure you have added extra bubbles or have the filter agitating the waters surface.

Good Luck Smile

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TROPICAL TANK-Elite Tank - 207litres
6 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 Emerald Eye Rasboras, 10 Cherry Barbs, 2 Bristlenose Plecs, 2 Panda Corys. 4 Dwarf Chain Loaches.

ViaAqua Tank AR620 97litres
1 red male betta, 1 BN
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:37 pm

the problem here is that both issues are equally bad - ich is bad and needs sorting fast but so is ammonia - dealing with either of thise is not easy in itself (not when youve never had to before) but a double whammy is a nightmare

However - we WILL sort this out Wink

BTW - forgot to say about the fry - its possible they dies from ammonia - its also possible that they are hiding - but you have angelfish - so more than likely the angelfish ate the fry

This will sound harsh but in the present circumstances - the lack of fry is a good thing - your system really doesnt need any more pressure in terms of bioload - tbh - if at all possible (but as you have ich not likely) id suggest trying to get the LFS to take some fish off your hands for you

If they wont - you wont like this - id seriously cosndier euthinasing the bvery weak 'common' fish ie platys etc - if they have ich they are weak already and will no doubt succum to the ammonia anyway - and as I have said - reducing the load on your tabk will help

I dont advocate euthinasia of fish easily - but right now your stuck in a mine field in the middle of no mans land - no where to run or hide - the welfare of the fish must be the priority and if some of them are especially ill looking (or spotty with ich and gasping for air( you may well actually be doing them a kindness by putting them down.

If this is an option your willing to consider - then feel free to ask about this or search this site as I know its covered somewhere.

I think most of us have had to do this to a fish or two at one point or another - and I thin it fair to say anyone who keeps fish probably ends up doing it at least once - a sad fact thats its a part if fish keeping.

I really do feel for you atm during all this - I hope it doesnt deter you - in a few months, youll have a thriving community of happy healthy fish Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:09 pm

hi BTB hope things start to improve soon mate



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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:56 pm

ok, thanks guys. Have now got a testing kit so will do a water test in a bit. I bought a gravel vac so will do that and a water change too and then start treating the fish.

I have got Interppet ich and Interpet fin rot treatment. Is that ok stuff?

Have just tsted the water -

ph 7.6
ammonia qbout 1.5
nitrite 0.5
nitrate 15

how much water do I need to change to get this down?
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:12 am

Now you know your stats you can see that you have a water quality problem, which wont help your fish get get over the ich.

Do a decent gravel vac. I would also do a big water change - about 60% or so. It is not generally recommended to do such big water changes but in this case I dont see an option tbh. If anyone else has other advice they will post it for you Smile

When that is done, slowly start to raise the temperature of the tank and start the treatments as recommended.

By the way, carry on the ich treatment for at least 3 days after the last of the white spots have gone to make sure that the infection has properly cleared.

Good luck with it all Smile

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TROPICAL TANK-Elite Tank - 207litres
6 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 Emerald Eye Rasboras, 10 Cherry Barbs, 2 Bristlenose Plecs, 2 Panda Corys. 4 Dwarf Chain Loaches.

ViaAqua Tank AR620 97litres
1 red male betta, 1 BN
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:40 am

Also - please please please dont buy any more fish for at least a month - this is for a number of reasons - firstly you need to get your tank 'cycled' you have ammonia - next thing to show will be nitrite

Alos as youve got ich you need to be sure it isnt going to break out again and to be sure its 'left' your tank - you dont want any new fish either coming down with it or bringing it in (adding insult to injury)

I would also suggest doing everything you can to reduce stress for your fish - so turn out the tank lights - I also suggest reducing the feeding as well - many reasons for this but essentially - it will help lower the load on your system - so a small amount every other day - do the graavel vac about an hour iafter feeding to get rid of uneaten food
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:43 am

Know you cant do it now, but when all your tank has sorted out I would get rid of the clown loaches and the angels asd I think they need a far bigger tank than you have got. You need to treat them first though I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Hiya, and Help!   Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:13 am

Sounds like you have your hands full, Bob, hope it all settles down quickly for you and your fish get better Smile
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