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 i doubt it is worth it

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kbekl
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PostSubject: i doubt it is worth it   Thu May 07, 2009 12:48 am







i got this nutrafin biological aquarium supplement free with the kids tank

from the nutrafin website

- Nutrafin Cycle
- Biological Aquarium Supplement
- 30 ml(1oz)
- Contains beneficial bacteria; nitrosomonas and nitrobacter
- Works together with other beneficial strains to eliminate harmful toxins
- Super concentrated
- The ideal mix of beneficial bacteria to make the aquarium water purer and the environment healthy
- For fresh and saltwater aquariums

from a different website

Nutrafin Cycle filer starter
Concentrated
bacteria that when added to the aquarium or filter chamber will
initiate or strengthen the biological removal of ammonia and nitrate by
beneficial bacterial strains. One teaspoon per 10 gallons weekly,
contains 500 billion live bacteria per dose.

Effective
biological filtration in combination with frequent small water changes
is the most effective way to maintain healthy water conditions. The
regular use of bacterial filter supplements such as Cycle can greatly
help the process of biological filtration.


* Super concentrated formula to keep aquariums healthy

* Beneficial bacteria consume ammonia and nitrite to prevent fish loss.

* Quickly repairs filters damaged by medication or other treatments.

* For freshwater and marine aquariums.

first question is is this going to affect my water in any way ?


second how long should it take to cycle with this stuff theroreticly speaking of course ?

what i am planning on doing is

start a fishless cycle once i have my test kit at hand

so
i am going to be dosing the tank with ammonia, but how much should i
use ? now a fishless cycle normally try and get 5ppm but this is
supposed to work straight away but i dont think that adding 5ppm of
ammonia is going to be testing this product fairly

so what
sort of an ammount of ammonia should i use to represent say 10 fish or
would i be better of testing for less fish to start


i will
test with the same kit and at the same time every day to see what
readings we haveand will then give it a few days (as this is supposed
to be a add and forget product) to see if the ammonia + nitrite is
being processed and to what level e.g if it works the first day will up
the ammonia to see what level it is capable of if it is working
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Diana
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Thu May 07, 2009 1:30 am

Interesting experiment Smile

I would still dose up to 5ppm I think. I know that is more than a small load of fish would generate, but if the product doesnt stats how many fish the stuff will deal with then there is no way to properly test it.

If you take it up to 5ppm, then see how quickly the bacteria brings it down. You know roughly how long a normal fishless cycle takes. Theoretically this should make a reduction in the Ammonia immediately, even if it doesnt bring it down to 0.

Look forward to seeing how it works Smile

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Rich
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Thu May 07, 2009 2:04 am

Well - it sort of works - I wouldnt use it on its own to cycle a tank (woth or without fish) but it does seem to improve the water quality a tad when the tank is already established

Personally - i still say King British safe water is the best ive used so far (cos its easy to find n buy and use)

Bactinettes are really good but have a short shelf life - have to be kept in a fridge and in order to use em, you have to take your filter apart and put the pellets in the bottom of the filter so its a bit of a faf to use - but effective when it gets going (about 12hoiurs or so)
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Mary
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Thu May 07, 2009 8:55 am

Given the amount of people I've come across who've used it and still had fish deaths due to an uncycled tank, I don't think it works at all. Only BioSpira does exactly what it says on the tin - a source of refrigerated live bacteria but alas, only available in the USA. tantrum

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kbekl
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Thu May 07, 2009 10:04 pm

the problem with biospara is it is no longer available to buy

and only the marine is available

we will see

on average it takes me about 4 weeks to cycle a tank from scratch

but their has been a published test with these bateria that actually fertilise the growth of bacteria

we will see if it takes 2 weeks to cycle the tank then i do know to some degree it helps
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Rich
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Fri May 08, 2009 3:01 am

If cycling from scratch - id personally always go for the old tried n tested long method and let nature take its course. As it happens - my main tank took 4 weeks to cycle from scratch (ie no donor media etc) - with donor media etc - ive cycled in 7 days

The advantage of having a big tank and several small ons is I can now cycled a new small tank in no time at all - simply use media from my exosting filters and the same for substrate Wink

I use KBSW in emergencies and it works as do bactinettes - im always suspicious of snake oils but for me these these do work

If you want/need donor media etc for your new tank(s) gimme a prod n I'll put a load in the post for ya Wink
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kbekl
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Fri May 08, 2009 5:34 am

rich i have established filter media available to me but thank you for this offer


as i am starting a new tank anyway and have this stuff free of charge (wouldnt buy it personally)

i thought lets test the affective ness of this product and see if what they claim it to do is done

i am only doing it out of curiosity and also it shows to new members that these products are worth less

i suppose if this thread was cleaned up properly and titled accordingly then it could be made a sticky in the faq section and when people ask about this sort of product we can show we have some experiance with it an not talking out our backside's like the lfs
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Fri May 08, 2009 5:39 am

If you want to do a 'cycle' diary then I'm sure we can edit and sticky this thread. I think it could be a great idea.
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Rich
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Fri May 08, 2009 6:51 am

I know what - if you can - do a 'scientific' test

Cycle two 'containers' of say 5 liters (ie bottled water tubs) or even two buckets

In theory you dont need heaters of 'powered' filters as such to do this, as long as the two sets are identicle (ie same water volume, water temp and quantity/type of media) so Id siggest taking two brand new sponges used in filters and just put themin the buckets

cycle em both in the same way, one with and one without the snakeoil and do a diary of the results as you go Wink

Bear in mind te victorians started the fish keeping thing, they dodnt have the luxury of power filters or thermostatic heaters etc - they did it how ive suggested (using gravel and even hesian sacking as media)

give it a bash Wink I suspect both will cycle in much the same way - the snake oil might do it in say three weeks

My final note to all is this - bottled bugs DO NOT conatain EVERYTHING that goes to making a fully cycled tank - reason being - science doesnt know what it takes to do this - and a cycled tank and a mature tank are not one n the same Wink
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kbekl
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PostSubject: Re: i doubt it is worth it   Fri May 08, 2009 5:43 pm

rich nice idea about the buckets

but i would have to have them in the garage and even then the kids might tip them up when i am not here


i am just a bit unsure about all the info reguarding this product i have very experianced keepers tell me that they dont work and would be a pointless experiment

then i have others that have been in the hobby for 4 or less years saying that they have a furtilizer affect on the bacteria

the only fair way for me to do this would be to have 2 tanks but i am not in the possition to have these tanks as i am looking to move again due to new baby

so i will do it this way with this tank and from my own experiance with cycling mine were always done in 4 weeks so if it takes 4 weeks i know they are just full of it

so today should be the day the test starts for the first time (will be getting ammonia and test kit soon)
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