The Friendly Forum For All Tropical Fishkeeping and Aquarium Chat
 
HomeWELCOME TO TROPGalleryFAQSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 fishless cycle your opinion

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
kbekl
Frequent User
Frequent User
avatar

Number of posts : 770
Age : 36
Location : stockport
Registration date : 2007-12-14

PostSubject: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:07 am

I want to know what you think about fishless cycling compared to the other options available?
Do
you think there is a easier or quicker method to cycle your tank? and
is it true this method can take months if done exactly as instructed?


i am a bit torn on this and feel do we actually know what is going on in the cycle to say what is best

true it can be seen as a humane way to mature a filter

but do we as fish keepers just throw a new hobbiest a thread about cycling or do we find out how better to help them

i know most of you have fish cycled your first tank/s and have had varying degrees of sucess

( and yes this perticular site is not the same as others )

but are their better ways to do the cycle that is more appealing to the masses

lets face facts no one wants to look at an empty tank thats costing money to run and not have anything to show for it in the end

and also y hasnt all the big companies jumped on the band waggon and started to produce the fishless cycle along with all the other types of additives today

wounder if fish in cycle is as bad as i is made out to be if done correctly

you put fish in tank thats been decholrinated and running for 3 days then you add a cycle type bacteria then you add a product that makes ammonia safe and a product that detoxifies nitirte

would this not be better than making a huge ammount of bacteria for it to die off when you add fish in the tank (what do these bacteria release into the water when dying)

and y do most shops even reputable one's like tri-mar and maidenhead aquatics never give the fishless cycle a second mention, cant be down to profit making as lot of people after loosing fish just give up and decide it's not for them, cant be bad information as they would make more money selling you things like ammonia in the long run. and then you have magazines like pfk that state you should be doing fishless cycles but do they make leaflet's for all their advertisers to have in their shops, no they dont and why is that i wounder. also have you noticed they dont test the products they advertise as a article for example try the different bacteria supliments with the same setups and the same routine along side fishless cycles and fish in cycles, also notice how they dont do their own version of ammonia

think back to your first tank experiance, did you feel their isnt enough info on this or enough products that work?

also if you have 1 tank do you really ever need to cycle another tank poperly or is it just a case of taking out half the media in your filter and an ornament or 2 and placing that in the new tank with fish


like i said i am a bit torn with all this and would like you to voice your own personal opinion on this and not a forum opinion, and then what would you do given you had no experiance in the hobby or even knew what a forum was.


scared sofa scared sofa shark Titanic chatting
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rich
Frequent User
Frequent User
avatar

Number of posts : 1374
Age : 43
Location : Devonshire (Nr Hobbiton)
Registration date : 2007-12-12

PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:25 am

I dont think its 100% the way to go - it certainly makes a tank habitable for tougher fish in a humane way (ie not subjecting them to their own ammonia etc) BUT I personally believe there is more to 'cycling' a tank fully than simply growing enough bugs to handle the ammonia and nitrite.

I have done the substrate and media swap thing to notonly other tanks of my own but for other peoples and the system work, again - upto the point of dealing with ammonia and nitrite.

I did use fishless cycle on my 1st tank - actually i first heard about it in a book then looked it up on the net.

Products fromthe shops - for the most part - are not the answer - at best (currently) they speed things up and (as ive used em) help in recovery from a crash

MY only advice or word of caution is that I dont beleive a fishless cycled tank can be stocked to the hilt immediately - perhaps 50% tops

I would rather not keep fish at all than use a fish cycle
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://tropicalfishfanatics.forumsmotion.com
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:32 am

Ok I cheated....
to be honest,I Got a bit scared of adding the amonia...

I Set up my tank got bore'd after awhile so asked my neighbour
up road for a good squeezing from his 16 yrs set up tank to seed mine
Checked stats.
I got lucky and everything was ok,
on saying that I Only have 1 fish.
all stats are fine and always have been.
doing my 4 bucket water change once a week.
but I don't know what would have happened if i added alot of fish?

way back in the 80's when i had a tropical tank
fishless cycle wasant heard of as it is now
it was run the tank for a week add fish,
I was again very lucky as all thrived and bred like rabbits.
I Had real plants in then too.
so this maybe helped.?

but this day and age,and all the info we now know
and all the chemicals that are added to tap water
and to help the fish's welfare
I guess fishless cycle is the way forward.
plus we didn't know any better in the good old days....

I also had a gold fish 17yrs when I was a kid
and changed his water when you couldn't see him..bless
or if his level went low in his round glass bowl

he must have been walking on the top of the water some weeks
it was that mucky and steamed up as he was on top of a shelf
on top of cooker..bless
yet again we didn't know and thought we was doing the right thing
he ended up old and nearly bent double
and bleeding gills Crying or Very sad



my opinion.
Back to top Go down
kbekl
Frequent User
Frequent User
avatar

Number of posts : 770
Age : 36
Location : stockport
Registration date : 2007-12-14

PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:17 am

isnt a seeded cycle still a fish in cycle to some degree ?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
indigoj
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Number of posts : 740
Age : 43
Location : Bury, Lancs
Registration date : 2008-02-17

PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:55 am

It is but as long as water changes are maintained it is ok.

I'm a big fan of using mature media and keep spare floss/sponges tucked in my externals.

I also keep a spare internal running in 2 tanks so if I ever needed to cycle a tank quick I technically don't have to.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Diana
Administrator
Administrator
avatar

Number of posts : 6033
Age : 65
Location : On here, talking to you!
Registration date : 2007-12-12

PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:36 am

Interesting topic kkbekl.

I have only ever done the fishless cycle so I dont have personal experience to compare it to, but obviously we have all seen/read posts from newbies who have just gone and got a tank, added fish and run into major problems with high amonia and nitrite levels, and sick or dying fish.

I dont think there is much doubt that the fishless cycle does help avoid a lot of 'early days' problems, and the fact that the filter has an enormous colony of bacteria gives a bit of leeway in the stocking of the tank. I did the fishless cycle and then fully stocked my tank to just a bit over the recommended level for its size. I had no water quality problems at all, no fish illness or deaths despite being a total novice.

I think that there really is no need NOT to do the fishless cycle - other than impatience, and is that really a good enough reason to maybe inflict pain and illness on your fish?

It may well be that in the future, other methods will become the acceptable way to cycle a tank. I seem to remember that someone on here cycled a tank using mega overplanting of live plants and a few fish, gradually increased which was successful.

I'll see if I can find the thread about it as it was quite interesting and I wouldnt mind having a go at that in the future.

EDIT - here's the link to brb's progress using plants only

http://tropicalfishfanatics.forumsmotion.com/tropical-beginners-forum-f20/cycling-with-plants-t1747.htm#13564

_________________
TROPICAL TANK-Elite Tank - 207litres
6 Harlequin Rasboras, 5 Emerald Eye Rasboras, 10 Cherry Barbs, 2 Bristlenose Plecs, 2 Panda Corys. 4 Dwarf Chain Loaches.

ViaAqua Tank AR620 97litres
1 red male betta, 1 BN
Back to top Go down
View user profile
kbekl
Frequent User
Frequent User
avatar

Number of posts : 770
Age : 36
Location : stockport
Registration date : 2007-12-14

PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:08 am

Diana wrote:


I think that there really is no need NOT to do the fishless cycle - other than impatience, and is that really a good enough reason to maybe inflict pain and illness on your fish?


thanx for the link i will have a read

the only problem is patience as in everything we have become a nation of throw away products, what was the last item that could have been fixed that you threw away due to needing/wanting a replacement asap this is the same as this sort of pet it is a throw away item in alot of cases as fish dont yelp cry or try and grab attention they are left to sit and stew

the problem with some aspects of the death and the suffering is the origins of the fish and thier condition befor the shop sold them not all fish make it in a cycled tank but who's at fault here the owner or the supplier? you could do the very best for the fish (which most people will) and still fail.

i opened this out to see people's point of veiw on this i know some memeber of forums do the exact opposite to what they will tell other's to do with their own fish but this is working for them

if i was a lfs i would be unsure what to say to customers in this instance. i personally would offer the seeded cycle my self as i belive this is better than any other way it is almost imediate and you can have fish not an empty tank

then you have the otherside of the argument as well

if a lfs stopped supplying the new hobbiest's with fish and forced the fishless cycle on them they would loose alot of custom (personally i would say 75% of it) as they will go elsewhere and then the good lfs is left with only the experianced keeper which he is lucky to get a purchase of fish for a while and then would have to close eventually as experianced keepers will only want food and the odd fish here and their.

the problem is with a forum you get alot of new memebers with their post of problems (when majority wont listen to instructions even when they ask) but what percentage of new fish keepers are these 10-30% the rest only use lfs for info so in my opinion a forum is the last place most people look and in some cases the last time that person will ever go on one

the problem is very little is known about the way fish and bacteria coincide in the wild which i think is what needs to change and on doing so will change the way we look at filter and tanks

ignorance is bliss Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed and always will be

this is a bit of an ott on the subject but i think most points are relivant but others will dissagree hence y i ask for your opinion

my initial tank was a fish in cycle as it was purchased on the off and not planned
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rich
Frequent User
Frequent User
avatar

Number of posts : 1374
Age : 43
Location : Devonshire (Nr Hobbiton)
Registration date : 2007-12-12

PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:23 am

I still say education is the problem within the fishkeeping world - no offence meant here but from what ive seen on forum s and in lfs - alot (the majority) of fishkeepers are 'older' is 40+ and these folk still say 'use a prawn' or wee inthe tank etc

Now here is an interesting tidbit - one guy in the lfs who happens to be a biochemist says the best way to seed a sterile tank - be it marine, tropical or anything else - is a good fistful of mud

Anyway - I think if shops sold 'fishless cycle kits' or something like it - that would help. When I started out - I didnt have the luxury of donar media or squeezings etc - I had to do it the long hard way (fishless - using boots household ammonia) and it took a month to do.

The fasted 'fisheless cycle' ive pulled off with donar media and squeezings is 7 days.

There is a report of PFK that shows fish do indeed feel pain - that aside - put your head in a plastic bag and see4 how you like not gettingt enough air - thats sopmething like what fish will go thru whilst sat in their ammmonia etc

thats good enough reason for me to always fishless cycle
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://tropicalfishfanatics.forumsmotion.com
dekker
Moderator
Moderator
avatar

Number of posts : 2030
Age : 60
Location : rotherham
Registration date : 2008-08-26

PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:06 pm

well i'm of the 40+ age rich was talking about and i think fishless is the way
i did'nt mind waiting a good month for my first tank to mature - then added stock
slowly - ie 5 neons two weeks later 2 gouramis and so on till i had my tank stocked.


but must admit with my second tank i tuck a squeeze or two from my running
filter to give my new one a kick start - but i wish i had'nt all was ok but i think
in fact know the fish in my first tank were a lot better than my second, -
i only did this cos it was recommended by someone - wish i had'nt done it thou.


so fishless cycle everytime for me - whats 4/5 weeks its not a life time and you can
plan your stock in that time frame, just my opinion.


dekker

_________________
dekker. fish
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: fishless cycle your opinion   

Back to top Go down
 
fishless cycle your opinion
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Formentor (cycle ride to, from CSV) Part 2
» Cycle Progress - Can I do anything Else?
» A question about cucumber life-cycle.
» How to Cycle With Your Dog
» Laying Cycle, Moult, Heat lamps

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tropical Fish Fanatics :: FRESHWATER CHAT :: TROPICAL FRESHWATER TOPICS-
Jump to: