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 "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank

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kausthubh
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PostSubject: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:11 pm

i've read quite often on the internet about cruelty in fish being tattooed, especially about how they are injected with dyes and most of them don't survive, and the survivors stay deformed etc.

in one of my school's giant fish tanks i saw an orange parrot cichlid with red and pink dots on its sides! i was shocked that there was actually one of these artificially dyed fish in my school. the school chairperson's son, who happens to be an animal fanatic (including fish of course) was right there. i asked him why he had one of these in the tank, but he said that the fish was not tattooed as an adult but the embryo was injected. the thing is, does the fish suffer the same way as it would if it was injected with colours after it became an adult? or does it stay normal because it hatched out of the egg with these pink and red spots?
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Rich
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:51 pm

You cant 'tattoo' an embryo - if youve ever had eggs develop in your fish tank youll know that the embryo dont even resemble fish until they are about to hatch - and even then - most of the fry at that stage is actually egg sack.

I feel theis guy is trying to either get you off his/her back back - or that is how they excuse it themselves.

Parrot cichlids WITHOUT the tattoo bit are deformed fish anyway - deformed by design - so the poor thing is off to a bad start anyway - however - the past is the past and their is little or no point making matters worse - as long as the fish is as happy as it can be now - thats the most important thing.

Just do what you must to ensure that the school doesnt get any more such fish.

Apparently - glass catfish are the most copmoonly tattooed fish - as theyve no colour normally - it makes it easy to 'paint' them - sad thing is they are extremely delicate fish at the best of times and thus why the death rate is so high - i have glass catfish and they are fascinating as nature intentded them to be.
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:28 am

thanks rich..
youre probably right about them being "deformed fish anyway". i observed them carefully, they can't close their mouths at all while feeding like the other fish do. i can't really do much about the school having lots of these fish- there are about 15 in each tank! but the tanks are pretty big so they have lots of space.
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:41 am

I agree with Rich. Why can't people, especially people who say they are 'animal lovers' get enjoyment from a fish that is just as nature intended? I appreciate that some people may buy these fish unaware that they have been treated in this way, but no one who really cares about animals would do that.

The chairpersons son may be an animal fanatic, but he has a lot of learning to do by the sounds of it regarding animal welfare.

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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:25 am

he sure does..... he's a super-rich guy, has thousands of fish at his house. i've never been there though, just heard about it from others.
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:45 am

Tell him to join up on here kt and we will show him the error of his ways Smile

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Rich
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:31 am

I have thousands of individual body parts - it dont make me a biologist Wink

He is a collector - there is a huge difference between 'keeping' fish and 'collecting' fish and the latter certainly doesnt make one an expert.

Im certainly no expert - a keen amateur but one determined to do the very best by my fish and part of that 9and with any animal) is self education and or research. No one here is what Id call a top flight expert - weve many very knowledgeable and experienced folk though.

You cant make anyone 'learn' or change their ways - often the best way is to lead by example (old zen saying that the best teacher in the world never utter a word) - in my mind - knowledge is wasted if it isnt shared - im happy to post my failures as much as my successes - not only do we learn by our mistakes - but by doing so we are in a posotion to stop others repeating it.

My mom was all for getting some parrot fish - until I told her what they really are - now when she see's them - she shales her head. I know she'd have been mortified if she had got some and then found out what they are.

What you could do (if you get the chance) is to write a paper or a project on what parrot cichlids are Wink and the internal damage etc etc. Pluis add the recent research into fish and pain and youve a strong case for 'No Nore Parrotfish In My School' type thing Wink
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:12 pm

nice idea rich well put mate


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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:44 pm

well that's an idea, but does it really make a difference if they remain in the fish shops or they live in my school's tank? i mean, apart from the tattooed fish, the others can be found in thousands and thousands across the city in various pet stores- where, of course, they are kept overcrowded. and even if i did manage to eradicate this erroneous hybrid from my school/city they are probably suffering by the million around the world

i'll try telling that guy anyways, he might realize something...
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:42 am

i dissagree with the masses here i think their is a place for the hybrid fish be it a parrot or even a pleco or a tang

the tattooing i dissagree with a passion and have never bought a tattooed or even a hybrid

the parot fish do have plates the same as other cichlids which they are able to eat food using these

but i have the feeling that most fish in the world will soon be hybrids due to the lenghts people going to catch these fish especially the rare ones

the guppies and endlers that most have in their tanks are hybrids to some degree hence y they are getting weaker
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:21 am

kausthubh wrote:
well that's an idea, but does it really make a difference if they remain in the fish shops or they live in my school's tank? i mean, apart from the tattooed fish, the others can be found in thousands and thousands across the city in various pet stores- where, of course, they are kept overcrowded. and even if i did manage to eradicate this erroneous hybrid from my school/city they are probably suffering by the million around the world

i'll try telling that guy anyways, he might realize something...

There is a point in what yoyu say kt, and it is similar over here. Lets face it, fishkeeping is not the most ethical hobby in many ways - a debate that has been had on many occassions.

I think all everyone can do is decide what they believe is right and stick with it. For example, there are some breeds of goldfish that I would not buy because to me thay have been 'tampered' with to an extreme degree and look horrible. The Bubble Eye for example is one I wouldnt touch at all.

For tropical fish, I would not buy a tattooed or artificially dyed fish, again because I dont think it is right to do this to an animal. However, there are many who keep these fish and like them and think it is ok to have them.

I suppose the main thing is that you try and make sure that the fish are well looked after, and put your point of view across to those who want to learn.

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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:07 am

definitely

but the storekeepers know it's wrong, yet they continue to keep the fish. why? because these hybrids are expensive and sell fast, which means the store makes loads of money off them.
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:39 am

Thats exactly why they do it - as fish shops over here sell fish to people to keep in unsuitable or uncycled tanks etc. They are running a business and want to make money.

If that means that some fish die in the process then it doesnt relly matter to them.

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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:51 am

Diana wrote:
Thats exactly why they do it - as fish shops over here sell fish to people to keep in unsuitable or uncycled tanks etc. They are running a business and want to make money.

If that means that some fish die in the process then it doesnt relly matter to them.

i think quite a few are changing their ways on this realising that most people havnt got the paitence with hobbies any more

but as some say the main problem is the buyer that no reaserch is done befor hand and that they want things today and not next month tbh
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:05 am

Unfortunately, while people continue to buy dyed and tattooed fish, thinking they look "interesting", so both horrible practices will continue...

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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:56 am

Im not against hybridisation in general - im against the continued practise of doing to to create animals which are known and proven to suffer as a result of it. After all - if evolution isnt another word for 'delective breeding' (hybridisation) then what is it? The difference is here that a parrot fish is highly unlikely to survive as a species outside of the pet trade - its 'kept alive' falsely by human intervention. As a side note - there is powerful evidence/proof of marine fish around the wqorld hybridising as the oceans warm etc - survival of the fittest as Darwin said.

Again - with gupsters and fighters - they too probably wouldnt survive long in the wild intheir 'over finned' forms - but at least their bodies are not so deformed that they staart life with organ problems etc.

Im also glad that certain authorities in the canine world have also taken this into account and wont allow certain species of dog to be shown competitively.

As Mary said - people will make these fish suffer whilst others are willing to buy them - the root of the problem in my opinion is plain old ignorance. Most newbies wouldnt know a 'painted' fish if it jumped out the tank and slapped them - I admit I dont have a clue what a natural fighter or gupster looks like either. The point is education - and we here maybe a small speck in cyberspace - but we ought to educate those who pass through our doors about these sickenening practises - if we prevent 1 fish being bought - then weve done our job.

If the demand stops then so will the supply.

Now then - onto the school thing - When I was at school - we were asked to do a project on our pets - to cut a long story short - I did mine on Gerbils and pointed out the problems with the school keeping their gerbils in a rotastak hamster cage that had a deep compartment filled with compost.

Once I handed my piece in - it was shown to the lab techs who then proceeded to rehome the gerbils into a proper 'Gerbilarium' like I had at home - the animals soon looked alot healthier and happier for it. Ultimately - it is better to tried and failed than to have not tried at all.

At the end of the day - what you buy inthe LFS is for your conscience to decide - I dont necessarily think keeping snalkes and lizard etc is right - but I do appreciate that in some cases this is probably the only way the creature is going to avoid extinction (syrian hamster is classic example of this)
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:07 am

what a debate!
i dont think there has been a line drawn in the sand at all when it comes to ethical treatment of fish!
if it was almost any other animal tattooing/ dying/ (even in some cases amputation/scaring by burns) this would be investigated and stopped almost immediatly!
but for some reason it is ok to do this to fish, i have almost come to the conclusion that i will only buy my fish direct from breeders and the select few lfs's i trust.
as for hybrid fish....... it is getting harder and harder to find a "pure" species these days as the genes are getting weaker and weaker caused by inbreeding. i also dont agree with cross breeding as some times its almost impossible to tell if one is what is marked as, and could cause serious helth/ bloodline problems if let to breed.
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:42 am

I cornered a guy in a chainstore lfs and asked about the various 'varieties' of Bristlenose plecs they had on offer - in the end he surrendered and admitted they were probably 'heinz 57' (hybrid) plecs of some kind with BN mixed in to produce the facal features.

Its a shame really - but this is why im planning on keeping one or two of any BN babies I get and perhaps breeding them more 'carefully' - means I need to find some 'clean' BN's tho.

Im also trying to get hold of some 'wild' gupsters and to breed from those too.
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:44 pm

sounds like you have a breeding prog in mind rich - if so all the best mate


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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:59 am

Well - I struck lucky today - my reliable very LFS (very local that is) has some Starry BN's - the proper pure strain - so I bought two at £5 each Very Happy so yes I ma going to breed properly (fish that is - not me Very Happy)
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PostSubject: Re: "tattooed" parrot cichlid in my school tank   Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:44 pm

good luck rich look forward to seeing some pics when you can mate



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